A perspective for local denominational organizations/judicatories on how they best empower their churches to serve from the base of their local context.
Posted on Another Social Media Site as a Response to the Original Posting of This Column on The Baptist Paper Site::
"Even if the ASM has preached numerous times in the church, and has a good relationship with the church, his responsibility is to stay back, unless he is a member of that church, or if he is asked BY THE BODY (not a committee or a person) to provide assistance. An unauthorized offer of assistance violates the autonomy of that church. Even if the Association has put it in his duties, to assist churches, they cannot authorize him to intervene in a local church issue. That church is supposed to be self-governing. If the church votes on a motion FROM WITHIN THE BODY, to ASK the ASM to help them, then, and only then, should he "step up" to offer assistance."
I want to affirm the freedom of anyone to have a different opinion. I do not know the source or cause of this post. Is it pain from a previous experience? Is it a misunderstanding of the role of a Baptist association and its director (Associational MIssion Strategist -- AMS rather than ASM as used by this person)? Did an AMS intervene in a church--appropriately or inappropriately. We do not know, but we know his feelings at the current time are strong.
Comment from an director of an association of @100 churches after eight years of service: After working with 22 church pastor search teams, I have to say that I disagree with your article in The Baptist Paper. The leaving pastor usually puts the Pastor Search Team together. He also recommends that they contact me. The chairman of the committee usually is my first contact. The church often calls me in to do pulpit supply for the first couple of Sundays after the pastor leaves. However, my relationship is usually with the pastor and not the church membership.
We have more than 100 churches and knowing our pastors and connecting with them is very important, but it often doesn't go beyond that. That said, I do believe that the AMS should have several touches with the Pastor Search Committee. I ask to meet with them for 90 minutes at their second meeting. At the first of their meetings, they need to pray, get organized, and set meeting times. It's at the second meeting that we outline the needs of the church, community, and future pastor.
Once they get going, I circle back with the chairman at least monthly. Cincinnati is blessed to receive a number of resumes that are already on file when a church needs to begin the process. I will have at least talked with the prospective pastor for 30 minutes before handing off the resume. The AMS has a valuable role, but having a long-standing relationship with members of a church is rare, if at all.
Thank you for your continued writing. I am a faithful reader.
MMy Response to this Ministry Colleague: Thank you for your note, your commitment to service as an associational director, and as a faithful reader.
You do raise a couple of appropriate points I would like to address. I always appreciate challenges of this nature as they call for me to think deeper about my subject and the principles/positions I am espousing.
First, whenever I write this columns for The Baptist Paper with a limit of 700 words, I always ask myself this question: "Do I have in mind today the typical association of under 50 churches with an AMS and perhaps a part-time or full-time administrative assistant, or the atypical association with 50-200+ churches and multiple staff?"
The three associations I served all had 80-100 churches. In addition I had my national service at the Home Mission Board in the associational missions division, and my service as the key staff related to associations in two state conventions. In the associations I served we were always figuring out how to affirm the pastor, staff, and the key lay leadership and have some type of relationship with them. Obviously not many could be close friends.
Second, a Baptist association is churches-in-association, and not just pastors-in-association. Therefore, as a core principle, it is important to figure out deeper and broader relationships as pastors may have short or long tenures but they typically come and go. Churches are there for the long-term and their lay leaders are often around for a good while. Also, many laypersons have gifts and skills that make the association so much greater in quality and quantity actions to fulfill the Great Commission in the spirit of the Great Commandment. Some of my mentors along the way helped me to understand and appreciate this perspective.
Third, too often I find pastors who are myopic about what their church needs next, and even in the process of setting up a pastor search committee they may script a future for the church which is not always the best it could be. If a pastor has been present for more than five to seven years it is especially important that they do some spiritual and strategic "soul-searching" that is congregational-wide before they even put together a pastor search committee. This is where the fellowship and staff of the association can be important catalysts.
Four, in the opening paragraphs of this column I implied that not all pastors leave on great terms. Perhaps they should not be guiding the setting up of the pastor search committee.
Further Response from This AMS: Thoroughly enjoyed your blog and appreciated your comments. I particularly liked your closing anecdote! Ha!
I'd like to see you address how an AMS builds relationships with church members. I find that paranoia sets in fast when I talk with any church members that are not in the pastor's presence. It's akin to a jealous husband, I suppose. On the other hand an AMS in another area, told me he has such turnover in pastors he only works with church members. The AMS for another association once told me he was amazed that all we had in our assocition was senior pastors. He said he couldn't get his senior pastors to work with him.
I suppose much of the make-up of a Pastor Search Committee relies on existing leaders. The very church that I am a member totally ignored me and a search team was put into place by the Personnel Committee of the church. They chose a chairman that I knew well and to this day I cannot believe they or he didn't ask. I suppose they didn't know that working with Committees like his was in my wheelhouse.
So, rambling aside, I appreciate your wisdom and can still learn a lot from you. It's just that today's article wasn't my experience and even though I've been here eight years, I still have yet to work with many leaders beyond the current pastors.
Directors of the Association should be able to guide and equip churches when they are without a pastor. They should know the church and their needs. However, they should then let the church committee function with the material and guidance of the association and then stay out of it until asked. The association can suggest names of pastors with resumes and let the committee pray and decide.
Catherine, thank you for your comment. It sounds like you may have encountered an associational AMS who has/had an agenda other than helping congregations following their understanding of God's leadership for their future. I have encountered them also. I do believe it is the responsibility of the AMS to be sure congregations during the interim have all the information they need to make a spiritual and strategic decision about their future without ever telling them exactly what to do. Missional opportunities can certainly be given to them, but they still must make their own decision about God's future for them. It is a "tightrope" process for all AMS as they have a hope for each congregation, yet they must want each congregation to be in the center of God will for them. At the same time, they mourn when there are laypersons who try to control the future of the congregation and are not themselves open to God's leading. It is complicated and there are no easy answers.
As an AMS I have found the key is longevity and patience. You are so right that it takes a trusting relationship with the laity of our congregations which is just really difficult to build in so many cases. Practically, how did you build these relationships and trust in your work as an AMS?
Zac, thank you for your comment and question. I have mentors and colleagues who led me to this understanding. Here are three among the many I could name. 1. Bob Franklin was associational director in Montgomery, AL and Noonday in Marietta, GA--an Atlanta suburb. Long before there were computers and other forms of digital communication, he would carry around 3x5 cards in his shirt or coat pocket. As he was in churches and the community, and encountered a layperson with varying gifts and skills from one of the association's churches, he would get their name and contact information written on one of the cards. He would add them to the associational newsletter, and otherwise contact and cultivate them over the years. 2. Lawrence Childs was associational director in Charlotte, NC. He created and atmosphere where he would ask churches to allow he and the staff (I was on his staff for a few years) to lead the church in strategic planning during the interim between pastors to help them develop criteria for what they needed in the next pastor who would lead them to fulfill that strategy. 3. Johnny Rumbough is director of the Lexington Baptist Association outside Columbia, SC. He has been in that role for more than 25 years and is approaching retirement. He made it a high value to seek permission to train the pastor search committee in each of the churches. He has now done that several hundred times. Additionally, he personally leads the revitalization efforts of his association. In the case of each of this AMS's, the length of their tenure was/is a very important factor. George
Posted on Another Social Media Site as a Response to the Original Posting of This Column on The Baptist Paper Site::
"Even if the ASM has preached numerous times in the church, and has a good relationship with the church, his responsibility is to stay back, unless he is a member of that church, or if he is asked BY THE BODY (not a committee or a person) to provide assistance. An unauthorized offer of assistance violates the autonomy of that church. Even if the Association has put it in his duties, to assist churches, they cannot authorize him to intervene in a local church issue. That church is supposed to be self-governing. If the church votes on a motion FROM WITHIN THE BODY, to ASK the ASM to help them, then, and only then, should he "step up" to offer assistance."
I want to affirm the freedom of anyone to have a different opinion. I do not know the source or cause of this post. Is it pain from a previous experience? Is it a misunderstanding of the role of a Baptist association and its director (Associational MIssion Strategist -- AMS rather than ASM as used by this person)? Did an AMS intervene in a church--appropriately or inappropriately. We do not know, but we know his feelings at the current time are strong.
Comment from an director of an association of @100 churches after eight years of service: After working with 22 church pastor search teams, I have to say that I disagree with your article in The Baptist Paper. The leaving pastor usually puts the Pastor Search Team together. He also recommends that they contact me. The chairman of the committee usually is my first contact. The church often calls me in to do pulpit supply for the first couple of Sundays after the pastor leaves. However, my relationship is usually with the pastor and not the church membership.
We have more than 100 churches and knowing our pastors and connecting with them is very important, but it often doesn't go beyond that. That said, I do believe that the AMS should have several touches with the Pastor Search Committee. I ask to meet with them for 90 minutes at their second meeting. At the first of their meetings, they need to pray, get organized, and set meeting times. It's at the second meeting that we outline the needs of the church, community, and future pastor.
Once they get going, I circle back with the chairman at least monthly. Cincinnati is blessed to receive a number of resumes that are already on file when a church needs to begin the process. I will have at least talked with the prospective pastor for 30 minutes before handing off the resume. The AMS has a valuable role, but having a long-standing relationship with members of a church is rare, if at all.
Thank you for your continued writing. I am a faithful reader.
MMy Response to this Ministry Colleague: Thank you for your note, your commitment to service as an associational director, and as a faithful reader.
You do raise a couple of appropriate points I would like to address. I always appreciate challenges of this nature as they call for me to think deeper about my subject and the principles/positions I am espousing.
First, whenever I write this columns for The Baptist Paper with a limit of 700 words, I always ask myself this question: "Do I have in mind today the typical association of under 50 churches with an AMS and perhaps a part-time or full-time administrative assistant, or the atypical association with 50-200+ churches and multiple staff?"
The three associations I served all had 80-100 churches. In addition I had my national service at the Home Mission Board in the associational missions division, and my service as the key staff related to associations in two state conventions. In the associations I served we were always figuring out how to affirm the pastor, staff, and the key lay leadership and have some type of relationship with them. Obviously not many could be close friends.
Second, a Baptist association is churches-in-association, and not just pastors-in-association. Therefore, as a core principle, it is important to figure out deeper and broader relationships as pastors may have short or long tenures but they typically come and go. Churches are there for the long-term and their lay leaders are often around for a good while. Also, many laypersons have gifts and skills that make the association so much greater in quality and quantity actions to fulfill the Great Commission in the spirit of the Great Commandment. Some of my mentors along the way helped me to understand and appreciate this perspective.
Third, too often I find pastors who are myopic about what their church needs next, and even in the process of setting up a pastor search committee they may script a future for the church which is not always the best it could be. If a pastor has been present for more than five to seven years it is especially important that they do some spiritual and strategic "soul-searching" that is congregational-wide before they even put together a pastor search committee. This is where the fellowship and staff of the association can be important catalysts.
Four, in the opening paragraphs of this column I implied that not all pastors leave on great terms. Perhaps they should not be guiding the setting up of the pastor search committee.
Further Response from This AMS: Thoroughly enjoyed your blog and appreciated your comments. I particularly liked your closing anecdote! Ha!
I'd like to see you address how an AMS builds relationships with church members. I find that paranoia sets in fast when I talk with any church members that are not in the pastor's presence. It's akin to a jealous husband, I suppose. On the other hand an AMS in another area, told me he has such turnover in pastors he only works with church members. The AMS for another association once told me he was amazed that all we had in our assocition was senior pastors. He said he couldn't get his senior pastors to work with him.
I suppose much of the make-up of a Pastor Search Committee relies on existing leaders. The very church that I am a member totally ignored me and a search team was put into place by the Personnel Committee of the church. They chose a chairman that I knew well and to this day I cannot believe they or he didn't ask. I suppose they didn't know that working with Committees like his was in my wheelhouse.
So, rambling aside, I appreciate your wisdom and can still learn a lot from you. It's just that today's article wasn't my experience and even though I've been here eight years, I still have yet to work with many leaders beyond the current pastors.
Directors of the Association should be able to guide and equip churches when they are without a pastor. They should know the church and their needs. However, they should then let the church committee function with the material and guidance of the association and then stay out of it until asked. The association can suggest names of pastors with resumes and let the committee pray and decide.
Catherine, thank you for your comment. It sounds like you may have encountered an associational AMS who has/had an agenda other than helping congregations following their understanding of God's leadership for their future. I have encountered them also. I do believe it is the responsibility of the AMS to be sure congregations during the interim have all the information they need to make a spiritual and strategic decision about their future without ever telling them exactly what to do. Missional opportunities can certainly be given to them, but they still must make their own decision about God's future for them. It is a "tightrope" process for all AMS as they have a hope for each congregation, yet they must want each congregation to be in the center of God will for them. At the same time, they mourn when there are laypersons who try to control the future of the congregation and are not themselves open to God's leading. It is complicated and there are no easy answers.
George
As an AMS I have found the key is longevity and patience. You are so right that it takes a trusting relationship with the laity of our congregations which is just really difficult to build in so many cases. Practically, how did you build these relationships and trust in your work as an AMS?
Zac, thank you for your comment and question. I have mentors and colleagues who led me to this understanding. Here are three among the many I could name. 1. Bob Franklin was associational director in Montgomery, AL and Noonday in Marietta, GA--an Atlanta suburb. Long before there were computers and other forms of digital communication, he would carry around 3x5 cards in his shirt or coat pocket. As he was in churches and the community, and encountered a layperson with varying gifts and skills from one of the association's churches, he would get their name and contact information written on one of the cards. He would add them to the associational newsletter, and otherwise contact and cultivate them over the years. 2. Lawrence Childs was associational director in Charlotte, NC. He created and atmosphere where he would ask churches to allow he and the staff (I was on his staff for a few years) to lead the church in strategic planning during the interim between pastors to help them develop criteria for what they needed in the next pastor who would lead them to fulfill that strategy. 3. Johnny Rumbough is director of the Lexington Baptist Association outside Columbia, SC. He has been in that role for more than 25 years and is approaching retirement. He made it a high value to seek permission to train the pastor search committee in each of the churches. He has now done that several hundred times. Additionally, he personally leads the revitalization efforts of his association. In the case of each of this AMS's, the length of their tenure was/is a very important factor. George
Zac, how are you doing this in your association? George